203 Umierania nieprawdy cd, czyli Kalasze, Irańczycy, Osetyńcy… i „irańska” haplogrupa G1 i jej mutacje

Ten artykuł jest poświęcony umieraniu tzw. Osetyńców, jako potomków tzw. Alanów, czyli Sarmatów, czyli Scytów itd, czyli tzw. PIE. Ktoś uważa, że było inaczej i podtrzymuje nieprawdziwe tezy o rzekomych od-osetyńskich, od-alańskich, od-irańskich itd. (jak zwał) zapożyczeniach językowych w języku słowiańskim? Ponownie proszę, o wskazanie jakichś powiązań genetycznych, potwierdzających tę przestarzałą, nieprawdziwą przeciw-słowiańską rasistowską germańską teoryjkę…

Tak jak to ktoś ujął wcześniej, (pewno Robert), pan dr Piotr Makuch, wykazał w swojej historycznej pracy co wykazał,.. tyle że z naukowego punktu widzenia, „wykazał” coś dokładnie odwrotnego, na co wskazuje nauka zwana genetyką… choć nie tylko ona…

Pan dr Piotr Makuch i jego nieprawdziwe przeciw-naukowe i przeciw-słowiańskie tezy, a za nim wszyscy inni allo-allo, jak pan Grzegorz Jagodziński itd, będą tu wkrótce ToPieNi w BaGNie itd, (no nie licząc tego kopa od KL”o”/u/vS+aKa, które już był zaliczył w poprzednim odcinku, wraz z jednym takim panem profesorem językoznawstwa i dokhtorem filozofii z Harwardu)…

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g002

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g004

http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/haplogroup-g1-y-chromosome-mutation.html

The origin of Iranian speakers is a big puzzle as in ancient times there were two quite different groups of such speakers: nomadic steppe people such as Scythians and settled farmers such as Persians and Medes.

I am guessing that the story of Iranian origins will only be solved in correlation to their Indo-Aryan brethren and their more distant Indo-European relations.

Clearly, G1 cannot be Proto-Indo-European as it has a rather limited distribution in Eurasia, but it could very well have been a marker of a subset of Indo-Europeans. If it was present in ancestral Iranians, then this would geographically constrain the places where ancestral Iranians were formed.

Deep Phylogenetic Analysis of Haplogroup G1 Provides Estimates of SNP and STR Mutation Rates on the Human Y-Chromosome and Reveals Migrations of Iranic Speakers
Oleg Balanovsky et al.

Y-chromosomal haplogroup G1 is a minor component of the overall gene pool of South-West and Central Asia but reaches up to 80% frequency in some populations scattered within this area. We have genotyped the G1-defining marker M285 in 27 Eurasian populations (n= 5,346), analyzed 367 M285-positive samples using 17 Y-STRs, and sequenced ~11 Mb of the Y-chromosome in 20 of these samples to an average coverage of 67X. This allowed detailed phylogenetic reconstruction. We identified five branches, all with high geographical specificity: G1-L1323 in Kazakhs, the closely related G1-GG1 in Mongols, G1-GG265 in Armenians and its distant brother clade G1-GG162 in Bashkirs, and G1-GG362 in West Indians. The haplotype diversity, which decreased from West Iran to Central Asia, allows us to hypothesize that this rare haplogroup could have been carried by the expansion of Iranic speakers northwards to the Eurasian steppe and via founder effects became a predominant genetic component of some populations, including the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs. The remarkable agreement between genetic and genealogical trees of Argyns allowed us to calibrate the molecular clock using a historical date (1405 AD) of the most recent common genealogical ancestor. The mutation rate for Y-chromosomal sequence data obtained was 0.78×10-9 per bp per year, falling within the range of published rates. The mutation rate for Y-chromosomal STRs was 0.0022 per locus per generation, very close to the so-called genealogical rate. The “clan-based” approach to estimating the mutation rate provides a third, middle way between direct farther-to-son comparisons and using archeologically known migrations, whose dates are subject to revision and of uncertain relationship to genetic events.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122968
Deep Phylogenetic Analysis of Haplogroup G1 Provides Estimates of SNP and STR Mutation Rates on the Human Y-Chromosome and Reveals Migrations of Iranic Speakers

PLOS Published: April 7, 2015 DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0122968

Coś dla lubiących drzewka:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g005

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g006

Unknown said…
There is a remarkable film from 1925 called Grass. It follows the annual Bakhtiari migration in the southwest of modern Iran. Whatever its flaws, it does illustrate that „pastoralist” lifestyle could have developed in the Zagros mountains well before it moved to the steppes. One interesting part is the crossing of the Karun River by maybe a hundred thousand cattle. Another is the Anatolian hunter.

A shortened version of the film is here:

Tuesday, April 14, 2015 4:40:00 a.m.

eurologist said…
„The “clan-based” approach to estimating the mutation rate provides a third, middle way between direct farther-to-son comparisons and using archeologically known migrations, whose dates are subject to revision and of uncertain relationship to genetic events. ”

They conveniently forgot about the most reliable of all: ancient DNA. Also, as I have mentioned before, I strongly suspect mutation rates to „slow down” with age of method/ sample. And we are quite near experimental tests (planned or accidental) showing whether the effective mutation rate is time-dependent.
Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:17:00 p.m.

Unknown said…
This is actually a remarkable piece of research. A key question is how the pastoralist economies got to the steppes. If it came along with domesticated animals, than it makes it possible that Indo-European languages also came along with it. This is the basic premise of any flavor of the Anatolian Theory of IE origin.

Steppe advocates of IE origins of course have worked hard to say that the Neolithic in Armenia, Anatolia and Iran did not include pastoralism. You can see some of the evidence evaluated in Daniel Potts’ „Nomadism in Iran: From Antiquity to the Modern Era.”

If there were herds of cattle, of course, one would think that pasture would dictate a transient steppes-style lifestyle right from the start. And since the archaeology as a whole is pretty light, the argument is about the lack of evidence more than the logic.

For a Russian sponsored project to essentially endorse the Anatolian theory appears to be pretty brave.

„Much higher STR variation in the west part of the Iranian-Armenian plateau makes the mountain homeland a more probable candidate. This conclusion fits the Anatolian theory of Indo-European origins, and the pattern of STR diversity (Fig 4) fits especially well.”
Monday, April 20, 2015 6:54:00 a.m.

Kurti said…
@Unknoen. Pastroalism started in what is nowadays known as Kurdistan. But most likely around the Zagros mountains there is no denying there. I have been advocating an Zagros/Albruz Mountain-North Mesopotamia origin of Indo European for a long time.
Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:49:00 p.m.

…..

http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/kalash-origins.html

April 30, 2015

Kalash origins

The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection
Qasim Ayub et al.

The Kalash represent an enigmatic isolated population of Indo-European speakers who have been living for centuries in the Hindu Kush mountain ranges of present-day Pakistan. Previous Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA markers provided no support for their claimed Greek descent following Alexander III of Macedon’s invasion of this region, and analysis of autosomal loci provided evidence of a strong genetic bottleneck. To understand their origins and demography further, we genotyped 23 unrelated Kalash samples on the Illumina HumanOmni2.5M-8 BeadChip and sequenced one male individual at high coverage on an Illumina HiSeq 2000. Comparison with published data from ancient hunter-gatherers and European farmers showed that the Kalash share genetic drift with the Paleolithic Siberian hunter-gatherers and might represent an extremely drifted ancient northern Eurasian population that also contributed to European and Near Eastern ancestry. Since the split from other South Asian populations, the Kalash have maintained a low long-term effective population size (2,319–2,603) and experienced no detectable gene flow from their geographic neighbors in Pakistan or from other extant Eurasian populations. The mean time of divergence between the Kalash and other populations currently residing in this region was estimated to be 11,800 (95% confidence interval = 10,600−12,600) years ago, and thus they represent present-day descendants of some of the earliest migrants into the Indian sub-continent from West Asia.

bellbeakerblogger said…
Related topics out this week:

Strontium Isotope analysis of first generation Harappan and Farmana immigrants of the Indus Valley…
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123103

From two weeks ago:

Four Harappans excavated by a South Korean team to undergo full genomic sequence…
http://www.archaeology.org/news/3209-150415-india-harappan-skeletons
Thursday, April 30, 2015 9:51:00 p.m.

Kurti said…
I have been saying on Eupedia that Kalash are most likely the remnant of ancient Proto ANE people from South_Central Asia since more than a year. Kalash have significant frequncy of Haplogroups such as R*, R1*, R1a*, R2*. My hypothesis is that this „Siberian” individual original stems from a population which was inhabiting the regon between South_Central Asia, Iran , North Asia and Sibiria. However ultimately they stem from somewhere in between South_Central Asia and Iran. People seem to forget that beside Amerindians the South_Central Asians such as Kalash have the highest frequency of ANE. Imagine how strong this ANE component will be among ancient South_Central Asians if even modern once(who have been the target of many farmer/herder waves) are still that strong in this component.

To be honest I don’t even think this „ANE” is the „real deal”, simply because Mal’ta might himself had absorbed some „other” admixture. I am not denying that ANE is very ancient I am simply speculating that some ancient R* individuals in other parts of the world, as example in South_Central Asia, could be autosomally slightly different.
Friday, May 01, 2015 1:49:00 a.m.

sykes.1 said…
When did these people show up in the Hindu Kush? If they are Indo-European speakers, they can’t have arrived much before 4,000 BC.
Friday, May 01, 2015 3:32:00 p.m.

capra internetensis said…
@aniasi
Among Kalash male lineages, only H1a1-M82 (20%) is properly South Asian. Even their R1a is Z2125, the more Central Asian type.
That said you are surely right, people with a variety of G, H, J, L, and young R clades can hardly be the product of ancient isolation on the male side. ASI is not supposed to have been a homogeneous population. In fact Moorjani et al specifically note evidence for differences in ASI within different Indian populations – that for some Onge is more closely related than for others. That said, I agree with you that South Asia is unlikely to have been totally isolated from everyone for the whole of the Upper Paleolithic.
Saturday, May 02, 2015 10:03:00 p.m.

andrew said…
„When did these people show up in the Hindu Kush? If they are Indo-European speakers, they can’t have arrived much before 4,000 BC”

An Indo-European language means significant cultural contact in the last 6,000 years, but doesn’t say anything more about their ancestral genetics than, for example, that fact that many pure blooded Native Americans and indigenous Australians speak English or Spanish or Portuguese.
Sunday, May 03, 2015 1:32:00 a.m.

Unknown said…
The term Indo-European is so overplayed that it has outlived its usefullness. Its reality began as language influenced but in the same vein the NE Afghan Nuristanis (my favourite baseline group) do speak an Iranic languange (Dari and even Pashto) as inhabitants of a nation state but whose original ‚language’ gave way to numbers and culture of greater identity (demographics and location of the larger society). Kalash and bottleneck survival of an intitial origin group who ‚lost’ their way but whose greater elements are /have become the seed group of earlier out of Asia migration to the Fertile Crescent and even the forerunner of Eropean population dispersal!
Sunday, May 03, 2015 8:59:00 a.m.

terryt said…
@ aniasi:
„This surely throws out the idea of a 60,000 year old unrelated population, and forces a reconsideration of population flow into South Asia before the late neolithic?”

Have you seen this:
http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/

Many interesting ideas presented but I found this particularly so:

„More or less all South Asian populations are a fusion between a deeply indigenous strain which distant affinities to the peoples of eastern Eurasia (ASI), and a group very close to the ones typically found in Western Eurasia (ANI). There are no pure indigenes”.

There is very little evidence of any ‚deeply indigenous strain’. And the ASI element looks by no means indigenous to India. This would indicate the idea that South Asia provided a major route east during the early Paleolithic.
Tuesday, May 05, 2015 7:53:00 a.m.