555 SKRBH 67 R1a nadchodzi… z północy, czyli kolejne gwoździe do trumny tzw. południowej drogi R1a 02

A tu mam coś jeszcze o R1a, a zwłaszcza o jego braku w tzw. kulturze jamowej / Yamna / Yamnaya… ale także i dalej na południu, także wyznawcy południowej drogi R1a… ten teges…

Przy okazji w środku komentarzy jest widoczna piękna dyskusja o rasizmie, rasach, itp, czyli samozaoranie politycznie poprawnych lewaków maści wszelkiej…

A i przypomnę, że i ja także bardzo kocham Kristiansena i że dawałem temu tu wyraz wielokrotnie… Cieszy Mię, że i East Pole, którego bardzo cenię również kocha tego mendrca duńskiej archeologii miłościom bezgranicznom…

Miłego czytania…

http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/the-beast-among-y-haplogroups.html

Tuesday, September 26, 2017

The beast among Y-haplogroups

A lot has been written about Y-haplogroup R1a over the years. Sadly, most of it was wrong, such as its posited Pleistocene origin in the Indian subcontinent and subsequent migration to Europe.

In all likelihood, R1a was born somewhere in North Eurasia. More importantly, its presently most common subclade, R1a-M417, no doubt came into existence on the Pontic-Caspian (or Western) steppe in modern-day Ukraine and southern Russia just 7,000-6,000 years ago.

And within a couple of thousand years it expanded in almost all directions, probably on the back of the early Indo-European dispersals, to cover a massive range from Scandinavia to South Asia. It is the beast among Y-haplogroups.

The most common subclade of R1a-M417 in South Asia today is R1a-Z93, and, realistically, it couldn’t have arrived there earlier than about 2,000BC. So much for the Pleistocene.

See also…

R1a-M417 from Eneolithic Ukraine!!!11

Eastern Europe as a bifurcation hotspot for Y-hg R1

Late PIE ground zero now obvious; location of PIE homeland still uncertain, but…

Ancient herders from the Pontic-Caspian steppe crashed into India: no ifs or buts

Posted by Davidski at 10:24:00 PM 241 comments:

EastPole said…
After discovering R1a-M417 in Dereivka culture somebody should inform Kristiansen, Anthony and others that their theory about Corded Ware and Proto-Germanic coming from Yamnaya is obsolete.

http://rootsofeurope.ku.dk/english/calendar/archive_2017/the-split-reconstructing-early-indo-european-language-and-culture/the-split-abstracts.pdf

September 27, 2017 at 12:03 AM

Aram said…
There was no single M417 in Yamna? I can’t believe it. 🙂
September 27, 2017 at 12:58 AM

Davidski said…
(…) @Aram Too bad for Yamnaya (so far).
September 27, 2017 at 1:03 AM

Karl_K said…
Sredny Stog !
September 27, 2017 at 1:05 AM Czytaj dalej 

Reklamy

495 SKRBH 51 The genomic history of Southeastern Europe (Mathieson et al. 2017 preprint), czyli północna droga R1a rządzi!!! :-)

UWAGA!!! BARDZO WAŻNY WPIS!!!

Dla mnie ten wpis to kolejny dowód na:

a) śmierć „południowej drogi R1a”, bo brak jest R1a na Bałkanach, Anatolii, itp,

b) śmierć Anatolii jako kolebki tzw. PIE, czyli także i języka tzw. PIE,

c) coś dziwnego dzieje się rolnikami z Bałkanów, bo okazują się wcale nie być aż tak anatolijscy, tylko 2000 lat wcześniej zmieszani z hodowcami ze stepu,

d) no i zaczyna się dyskusja nad około 10,500 starym R1a na stepie (Vasilievka)  i w Karelii,

e) no i to samo dotyczy R1b znalezionego w Dereivka, ale przede wszystkim na zachód od stepu… czyli R1b jako, że mieszało się wcześniej z innymi ludami, nie tak jak R1a… to zatraciło np. wiele ze swojego… hm…  „pierwotnego?” języka…    

Folker said…
I find extremely interesting: „early farmers from southern Greece are not descended from the Neolithic population of northwestern Anatolia that was ancestral to all other European farmers”.
May 10, 2017 at 5:07 AM

Gioiello said…
„intermittent steppe ancestry” intermittent doesn’t mean „massive”, I’d say it means „a little” let that I say that, being this word of Latin origin. good-by R-L51 from the East. good-by Samara
May 10, 2017 at 5:15 AM

bellbeakerblogger said…
‚Intermittent’ sounds like pockets of foreigners. Varna elite = Lower Volga? Question is if they are like later Yamnaya?
May 10, 2017 at 5:57 AM

batman said…
According to geography and the alledged bifurication of R1, Varna ‚elite’ should rather relate to a West Side Story of Lower Vistula.
May 10, 2017 at 6:30 AM

Suevi said…
I1819 (8825-8561 calBCE (9420±50 BP, Poz-81128), Ukraine_Mesolithic, Vasil’evka) – R1a
May 10, 2017 at 7:14 AM

Romulus said…
LOTS OF R1B IN MESOLITHIC BALKANS
May 10, 2017 at 7:28 AM

Roy King said…
Amazing! Much R1b1a in Balkans!
May 10, 2017 at 7:28 AM

Arza said…
@ EastPole
Ukraine Eneolithic 3500 BCE I4110 from Dereivka looks like a modern Balto-Slav (Figure 1.)
May 10, 2017 at 7:28 AM

Karl_K said…
It’s nice to have enough samples that you can actually get a sense of the variety of mixing between cultures, and the regional differences in genetics. Lots of unexpected stuff here.
May 10, 2017 at 7:49 AM

Slumbery said…
About a much debated topic: it looks like GAC had no „Steppe”, it appears as a typical farmer population, but with elevated (25%) WHG. Also Comb Ware is EHG and assimilating the previous WHG-heavy groups in the Baltic.
May 10, 2017 at 7:58 AM

Karl_K said…
@Slumbery And some Comb Ware were close to 100% EHG. Very interesting that they were so isolated for so long.
May 10, 2017 at 8:03 AM

Romulus said…
Varna man belonged to Y DNA CT, what a let down, guess his golden condom ended that Y line. Other Varna are 2x G2a and 1 R1.
May 10, 2017 at 7:59 AM

Davidski said…
@Karl_K R1a is an EHG marker, native to Eastern Europe. It did not migrate there with CHG.
May 10, 2017 at 9:21 AM

irjhar007 said…
R1a is an EHG marker, native to Eastern Europe

To be neutral you can’t connect autosome with Hgs directly . But obviously we are not worried about M417- clines , they were there all over Eurasia from Meso to Early Neo , we will have to see how the pattern of M417 + emerges. I also think Meso India will also show lots of R1a M417 – , but again it will not matter much to the IE question, to which M417 can be somewhat faithfully connected. Now it turns for the Mycenaean and Maykop , very very crucial and of course India.
May 10, 2017 at 9:30 AM

Davidski said…
@Nirjhar I also think Meso India will also show lots of R1a M417-. You’re totally nuts. Take some pills and go and lie down for a while.
May 10, 2017 at 9:35 AM

http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/the-genomic-history-of-southeastern.html

Wednesday, May 10, 2017

The genomic history of Southeastern Europe (Mathieson et al. 2017 preprint)

Over at BioRxiv at this LINK:

Abstract: Farming was first introduced to southeastern Europe in the mid-7th millennium BCE – brought by migrants from Anatolia who settled in the region before spreading throughout Europe. However, the dynamics of the interaction between the first farmers and the indigenous hunter-gatherers remain poorly understood because of the near absence of ancient DNA from the region. We report new genome-wide ancient DNA data from 204 individuals-65 Paleolithic and Mesolithic, 93 Neolithic, and 46 Copper, Bronze and Iron Age-who lived in southeastern Europe and surrounding regions between about 12,000 and 500 BCE. We document that the hunter-gatherer populations of southeastern Europe, the Baltic, and the North Pontic Steppe were distinctive from those of western Europe, with a West-East cline of ancestry. We show that the people who brought farming to Europe were not part of a single population, as early farmers from southern Greece are not descended from the Neolithic population of northwestern Anatolia that was ancestral to all other European farmers. The ancestors of the first farmers of northern and western Europe passed through southeastern Europe with limited admixture with local hunter-gatherers, but we show that some groups that remained in the region mixed extensively with local hunter-gatherers, with relatively sex-balanced admixture compared to the male-biased hunter-gatherer admixture that we show prevailed later in the North and West. After the spread of farming, southeastern Europe continued to be a nexus between East and West, with intermittent steppe ancestry, including in individuals from the Varna I cemetery and associated with the Cucuteni-Trypillian archaeological complex, up to 2,000 years before the Steppe migration that replaced much of northern Europe’s population.

Mathieson et al., The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe, bioRxiv, Posted May 9, 2017, doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/135616

See also…

Globular Amphora people starkly different from Yamnaya people

The Bell Beaker Behemoth (Olalde et al. 2017 preprint)

Posted by Davidski at 12:04:00 AM Czytaj dalej

478 SKRBH 47 The End of Old Europe and the Rise of the Steppe


Figure 11.3. Tripolye B1-B2 migrations. After Dergachev 2002, figure 6.2.

Znalazłem ten tekst przypadkiem, kiedy szukałem grafik do poprzedniego wpisu. Wydaje mi się, że jest to część książki D.W. Anthony The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World… 

Uważam, że D.W. Anthony swoim brakiem znajomości słowiańskich nazw części wozu i konia, patrz np. wpis nr 44 udowodnił, jak mondra i wszechfiedząca jest ofitzjalna nałka,.. która oczywiście także nie jest uprzedzona przeciw-słowiańskio… ;-( Do tej mondrości powrócę jeszcze i wykażę, że tacy jak D.W. Anthony są uprzedzeni przeciw-słowiańsko lub… zwyczajnie niedouczeni… 😦

http://erenow.com/ancient/the-horse-the-wheel-and-language/11.html

The End of Old Europe and the Rise of the Steppe

By 4300–4200 BCE Old Europe was at its peak. The Varna cemetery in eastern Bulgaria had the most ostentatious funerals in the world, richer than anything of the same age in the Near East. Among the 281 graves at Varna, 61 (22%) contained more than three thousand golden objects together weighing 6 kg (13.2 lb). Two thousand of these were found in just four graves (1, 4, 36, and 43). Grave 43, an adult male, had golden beads, armrings, and rings totaling 1,516 grams (3.37 lb), including a copper axe-adze with a gold-sheathed handle.1 Golden ornaments have also been found in tell settlements in the lower Danube valley, at Gumelniţa, Vidra, and at Hotnitsa (a 310-gm cache of golden ornaments). A few men in these communities played prominent social roles as chiefs or clan leaders, symbolized by the public display of shining gold ornaments and cast copper weapons.

Thousands of settlements with broadly similar ceramics, houses, and female figurines were occupied between about 4500 and 4100 BCE in eastern Bulgaria (Varna), the upland plains of Balkan Thrace (KaranovoVI), the upper part of the Lower Danube valley in western Bulgaria and Romania (Krivodol-Sălcuta), and the broad riverine plains of the lower Danube valley (Gumelniţa) (figure 11.1). Beautifully painted ceramic vessels, some almost 1 m tall and fired at temperatures of over 800˚C, lined the walls of their two-storied houses. Conventions in ceramic design and ritual were shared over large regions. The crafts of metallurgy, ceramics, and even flint working became so refined that they must have required master craft specialists who were patronized and supported by chiefs. In spite of this, power was not obviously centralized in any one village. Perhaps, as John Chapman observed, it was a time when the restricted resources (gold, copper, Spondylus shell) were not critical, and the critical resources (land, timber, labor, marriage partners) were not seriously restricted. This could have prevented any one region or town from dominating others.2


Figure 11.1 Map of Old Europe at 4500–4000 BCE. Czytaj dalej

465 SKRBH 46 Pra-Słowianie, co żyli jeszcze przed Yamnaya culture,.. czyli Sredny Stog i Dereivka culture 02


http://www.vera-eisenmann.com/dereivka-photos

Oto kolejna część wiadomości o tzw. kulturze Sredny Stog, a właściwie o jej najbardziej znanym stanowisku archeologicznym zwanym Dereivka. Proszę zwrócić uwagę na strzałki, które wskazują skąd pojawili się w tym miejscu ludzie z haplogrupą R1a… Jak widać nie jest to południe… 🙂 Dodatkowo pragnę zwrócić uwagę na to, jak bardzo zawężony został obszar występowania rzek, których nazwy mają słowiański źródłosłów…

Przypominam, że to nie jest prawda, co twierdzą różni tacy jedni uprzedzeni przeciw-słowiańsko, jakoby Słowianie nie znali słów odpowiadających tzw. PIE… hm… zaraz zaraz… o co tu chodzi? Sami zobaczcie…

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/horse

(…)Etymology 1

From Middle English horse, hors, from Old English hors (horse), metathesis from Proto-Germanic hrussą(horse), from Proto-Indo-European ḱr̥sos (horse), from Proto-Indo-European*ḱers- (to run). (…)

Etymology 2

Unknown (…)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=horse

horse (n.) „solidungulate perissodactyl mammal of the family Equidæ and genus Equus” [Century Dictionary], Old English hors „horse,” from Proto-Germanic hursa- (source also of Old Norse hross, Old Frisian, Old Saxon hors, Middle Dutch ors, Dutch ros, Old High German hros, German Roß „horse”), of unknown origin, connected by some with PIE root kurs-, source of Latin currere „to run” (see current (adj.)).

The usual Indo-European word is represented by Old English eoh, Greek hippos, Latin equus, from PIE *ekwo- „horse” (see equine). In many other languages, as in English, this root has been lost in favor of synonyms, probably via superstitious taboo on uttering the name of an animal so important in Indo-European religion. For the Romanic words (French cheval, Spanish caballo) see cavalier (n.); for Dutch paard, German Pferd, see palfrey; for Swedish häst, Danish hest see henchman. As plural Old English had collective singular horse as well as horses, in Middle English also sometimes horsen, but horses has been the usual plural since 17c. (…)

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=equine&allowed_in_frame=0

equine (adj.) 1765, from Latin equinus „of a horse, of horses; of horsehair,” from equus „horse,” from PIE root *ekwo- „horse” (source also of Greek hippos, Old Irish ech, Old English eoh, Gothic aihwa-, Sanskrit açva-, Avestan aspa-, Old Church Slavonic ehu-, all meaning „horse”).

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/equus#Latin

(…)Etymology

From Proto-Italic ekwos, from Proto-Indo-European h₁éḱwos (horse). Cognates include Ancient Greek ἵππος(híppos), Sanskrit अश्व (áśva), Persian اسب (æsb), Old Armenian էշ (ēš, donkey), Tocharian B yakwe, Gaulish epos. (…)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h%E2%82%81%C3%A9%E1%B8%B1wos

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₁éḱwos

Alternative reconstructions

Etymology

Usually explained as a derivation of the adjective h₁eḱus (quick, swift), also seen in e.g. Ancient Greek ὠκύς(ōkús), Latin ōcior (faster) and Sanskrit आशु (āśú, fast, quick) (all < PIE h₁oh₁ḱus (swift)). The thematic derivation would express association with a root noun *h₁eḱ- (swiftness, celerity), thus denoting „that which has swiftness” or „the swift one”. The adjective would have to be derived from the root by reduplication, which is unusual in PIE nominal word formation. Many linguists therefore reject it as popular etymology and suggest other sources:

  • Kulanda 2008 argues that the PIE word is borrowed from North Caucasian, since there are no known Nostratic cognates; compare Kabardian шы (šə), Abkhaz аҽы (āčə), Avar чу (ču), Karata ичва (ičʷa, mare), Lezgi шив (šiv, horse) etc. (NCED 520). This etymology has been criticized by Matasović 2012:291 who argues that the direction of borrowing is probably from PIE into North Caucasian: steppe horses were probably traded for Mesopotamian imports on the North Caucasus in the eneolithic period. The fact that we find fricatives and affricates in the Caucasian reflexes of this word indicates that the source could have been an IE dialect of the satem type.
  • Bomhard connects it to Proto-Altaic *èk‘á (to move quickly, to rage) with the original meaning not „the swift one” but „the spirited, violent, fiery, or wild one”, both deriving from Proto-Nostratic root *ʔekʰ- „to move quickly, to rage; to be furious, raging, violent, spirited, fiery, wild”

The original thematic form is also disputed – according to Kloekhorst (2008), the original derivation was a u-stem, to which point Anatolian reflexes which presume Proto-Anatolian u-stem h₁éḱu-, as opposed to the thematic (o-stem) derivation in all the other PIE branches. There is no known phonological development through which PIE h₁eḱwo- could yield PAnat. h₁eḱu-, and in view of the productivity of the o-stem inflection in Anatolian it is unlikely that PIE h₁eḱwo- would have yielded PAnat. h₁éḱu- through secondary developments. We therefore must conclude that the Proto-Anatolian u-stem h₁éḱu- reflects the original state of affairs and that the thematicization as visible in the non-Anatolian IE languages (which is a trivial development) must be regarded as a common innovation of them. In other words, this is one of the evidences supportive of the Indo-Hittite hypothesis. The original paradigm was probably thus h₁éḱ-u-s, h₁éḱ-u-m, h₁ḱ-u-és, from the stem h₁eḱ-u- (swift).

Noun

*h₁éḱwos m (non-ablauting)[4]

  1. stallion, horse

Inflection

Thematic
singular dual plural
nominative *h₁éḱwos *h₁éḱwoh₁ *h₁éḱwoes
vocative *h₁éḱwe *h₁éḱwoh₁ *h₁éḱwoes
accusative *h₁éḱwom *h₁éḱwoh₁ *h₁éḱwons
genitive *h₁éḱwosyo *? *h₁éḱwooHom
ablative *h₁éḱwead *? *h₁éḱwomos
dative *h₁éḱwoey *? *h₁éḱwomos
locative *h₁éḱwey, *h₁éḱwoy *? *h₁éḱwoysu
instrumental *h₁éḱwoh₁ *? *h₁éḱwōys

Synonyms

Descendants

  • Anatolian: *ʔeḱu-
    • Hittite:  (ANŠE.KUR.RA-us, /ekkus/) (only attested with Sumerogram)
    • Luwian:
      Cuneiform Luwian:  (ANŠE.KUR.RA-us, /aššus, azzus/)
      Hieroglyphic Luwian: EQUUSásù(wa)
    • Lycian:  (esbe)
  • Armenian:
    • Old Armenian: էշ (ēš, donkey)
      • Armenian: էշ (ēš)
  • Balto-Slavic:
    • Lithuanian: ašvà (mare)
    • Old Prussian aswinan (mare’s milk)
  • Celtic: *ekʷos (see there for further descendants)
  • Germanic: *ehwaz (see there for further descendants)
  • Hellenic: *íkkʷos (see there for further descendants)
  • Indo-Iranian: *Háćwas (see there for further descendants)
  • Italic: *ekwos
    • Old Latin: equos
    • Venetic: ekvon (acc.)
  • Phrygian: [script needed] (es’)
  • Thracian: [script needed] (esvas)
  • Tocharian: *yä́kwë

References

  1. ^ Ringe, Don (2006) From Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic, Oxford University Press
  2. ^ Kloekhorst 2008:239
  3. ^ De Vaan, Michiel (2008) Etymological Dictionary of Latin and the other Italic Languages (Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary Series; 7), Leiden, Boston: Brill
  4. ^ EIEC p. 273

Czyli co… ten tzw. PIE miał na określenie KL”oS+aKa, KL”aC”y, Ko”Ca,.. kilka różnych słów, jak h₁éḱwos albo ekwo-, albo ḱr̥sos, albo kurs-,.. nie zapominajc, o h₁eḱus, czy  h₁oh₁ḱus,.. czyli  słowiańskim SoKoLe i tzw. rough breathing wymianie dźwięku tzw. PIE zapisywanego znakiem S na późniejszy zapisywany znakiem H?!! 🙂 LOL „:-)

Pisanie o tym, że te fszystkie ałtorytety nie znajo słowiańskich słów, jak te powyżej jest już straszliwie nudne, bo pisałem już o tym wiele razy…

https://skribh.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/222-kola-kouvla-kolano-gola-gouvla-gala-sola-sala-sila-ziola-ziala-zale-hala-hela-chula-czyli-dlaczego-germanskie-jezykoznawstwo-to-klamstwo-i-niedziala/

https://skribh.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/201-czy-kara-za-swiadome-gloszenie-nieprawdy-winno-byct-topienie-w-bagnie-nabijanie-na-pal-czy-stratowanie-a-potem-wlouvczenie-za-klouvsownikiem-klouvsouvjacym-w/

…ale jak widać już czas, żeby napisać o tym znów, bo ilość mondrość poświęconych temu zagadnieniu gwałtownie wzrasta, jak trujące grzyby po deszczu…


A,.. strona poświęcona Dereivce nie występuje na wikipedii w języku polskim… no bo i po co, nieprawdaż? 😦Czytaj dalej

463 SKRBH 45 Pra-Słowianie, co żyli jeszcze przed Yamnaya culture,.. czyli Sredny Stog i Dereivka culture 01


http://www.languagesoftheworld.info/bad-linguistics/wheel-vocabulary-puts-spoke-bouckaert-et-al-s-wheel.html



http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/btn_Archeology/Mallory/JMalloryEneolothBronzeAgeEn.htm

Postanowiłem pokazać Wam, że istnieje życie po za Yamnaya… a nawet, że to życie istniało dłuuugo, dłuuugo wcześniej… niż może się komuś „dobrze poinformowanemu” przez tzw. teorię kurhanową / stepową wydawać… Wg mnie było ono już pra-słowiańskie… i pochodzące od łowców mamutów, jak Karelczyk…

Dodatkowo ponownie zwracam uwagę, na trzy typy ludzki, jakie tworzyły rzekomo tzw. pra- indo-europejską kulturę jamową / Yamna / Yamnaya… o czym pisano już w 2012 roku, jak i na to, że ludzie ze Srednego Stogu mieli związki z tzw. kulturą Cucuteni-Tripolye… np. kupowali od niej wyroby metalowe, itp… Dziwne, że jakoś nie handlowali z ludami na i za Skałkazem i nie kupowali np. brązowych siekier np. od Sumerów… hehehe

A i jeszcze jedno. Niestety Davidski wydaje mi się coraz bardziej podejrzany z tą jego manią stepową… Dlaczego on nie widzi, że Yamnaya to głownie R1b, ciemne włosy, oczy, itp… dokładnie jak to widać u tzw. Celtów a nie u Słowian?!! Cuchnie mi to padliną… lukrowaną uprzedzeniem do wyciągania wniosków innych niż jego (i nie tylko jego) ukochana i umiłowana teoria kurhanowa / stepowa… która jakoś tak coraz bardziej rozłazi się szwach…


Overview of the Kurgan hypothesis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

Niestety wikipedia nie posiada strony w języku polskim poświęconej kulturze archeologicznej zwanej Sredny Stog… no bo i po co, nieprawdaż? 😦 Czytaj dalej

458 SKRBH 43 Why Yamnaya Didn’t Contribute to Corded Ware – On Circularity and Perpetuated Talks


Brandt et al. (2013): associated mtDNA groupings expand and retreat in European prehistory. Note that each grouping reflects a different pattern of transitions between archeological periods.

Szanowne Czytelniczki i Szanowni Czytelnicy…

Już tak mam, że jak coś mnie zaciekawi, to szukam i czasem wpadam na takie ciekawe ciekawostki jak ten wpis poniżej, który wskazuje na różne fakty, które podważają twierdzenie, o tym że rzekomo tzw. kultura sznurowa / toporów bojowych / Corded Ware culture, zwał, jak zwał… wywodziła się z kultury jamowej, Yamna / Yamnaya / Pit Grave culture / Ochre Grave culture!!! 🙂

Ograniczę się tylko do tego że napiszę, że w zacytowanych na dole komentarzach German Dziebel, („ruski troll z Leningradu”, pewno chazarskiego pochodzenia,.. którego bardzo w sumie lubię), walnął typowego nadętego germańskiego babola, jak to na ofitzjalnych jęsykoznaftzóf przystało,.. aczkolwiek on sam raczej takim tępym typem to nie jest, przynajmniej ja go za takiego nie mam… (Pisze o błędach w wywodzeniu tzw. satem / kentum, itp.)

To, co napisał: (…)The glottalic theory of IE consonantism can’t be rejected, hence it’s possible that Germanic is one of the most archaic IE dialects from the point of view of the stop system. (…)… hm… No cóż… każdemu czasem odbija… albo może gorzej…  ta ich ofitzjalna fietza, jaką przyjęli przez czas ich ofitzjalnego nauczania,.. hm… lasuje umysły pewno do śmierci… Mam nadzieję, że rozumiecie, co mam na myśli… i nie pomyślicie, że ta jedna niema mondrość przekreśla wszystko to, co wypływa z tego wpisu… Dla mnie ten wpis to granat wsadzony głęboko w otłuszczone dupska wszystkich, którzy polegają na naukach ofitzjalnych profesoróf…

BOOOOOOM!!! 🙂

Miłego czytania o tym, o czym rozprawiamy tu ostatnio, czyli… o „północnej drodze R1a”… 🙂

SKRiBHa

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https://rokus01.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/why_yamnaya_didnt_contribute/

Why Yamnaya Didn’t Contribute to Corded Ware – On Circularity and Perpetuated Talks

December 29, 2014

The ‘West Hunter’ anthropo-weblog of Cochran and Harpending apparently intends exciting reading ‘against the grain’ on intelligence, race and culture. Hence, I was aghast to recognize group thinking rather than truly independent innovation. I didn’t expect nourished ‘truths’ to skew their views and incite the exclamation of unsupported claims. This practice exactly induces the circularity of Kurganist views on the origin of Indo-European languages that center on Yamnaya horse riders from the Pontic-Caspian region, ie. Ukraine. Since apparently this hypothesis was hailed as the politically correct version of the Nazi pet hypothesis that instead centered on the archeological Corded Ware horizon between Rhine and Volga, proponents of many academic circles thrive on the notion that any argument against may be discounted as suspicious. But what’s the pressure worth to defend an alternative truth when this inspires to utter a statement as this: ‘Blond hair maps pretty well into Corded Ware territory, which suggests that it came in with the Yamnaya.’ (Cochran in ‘Faster than Fisher’, 22-11-2014)? Besides being unsupported by the current data, this fabrication of would-be facts is actually part of a larger circularity that totally depends on the same old gut feelings.

Without the intention to harm their fundraising plea for a ‘tax-deductible contributions to their blog’, I’d bet they wouldn’t get a coin if the authors weren’t such a Kurganists. Corded Ware that got their blond hair from Yamnaya, certainly a bold statement and maybe even worse than it looks. I urged him please to read Mallory himself, since Yamnaya and Corded Ware really were two different cultures:

‘Lothar Kilian isolated twenty-three diagnostic features. He argued that the Corded Ware burials possessed a series of traits not found in the Pontic-Caspian – amphorae, cord-decorated beakers, battle-axes – which are the essential markers of the Corded Ware culture. In contrast, the steppe burials utilized egg-shaped pottery, hammer-head pins, ochre and a variety of burial postures unknown in the Corded Ware horizon. While there may be some generic similarities, Kilian concluded that the specific differences do not support an historical connection between the two regions.’ (Mallory, 1989)

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422 SKRBH 26 Nowe źródła genetyczne, czyli bardziej i więcej także o tzw. PIE, o ich żonach i ich mtDNA

W odpowiedzi na osobiste, coś jak żądanie… i w nawiązaniu do kilku innych zapytań i spraw, oto nadarzyła się okazja, żeby upowszechnić trochę ciekawych źródeł i wiadomości. Szczególnie polecam rozważania o żeńskich haplogrupach i roli kobiet w dziejach, nie tylko Słowiańszczyzny, ale nie tylko to, bo i tzw PIE tyż można se poczytać…

Mam nadzieję, że ten wpis na jakiś czas zadowoli pewną przedstawicielkę płci przeciwnej, czyli pięknej (bez urazy, ale może nawet i nie jedną)…  😉

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http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/women-on-move.html

Sunday, February 5, 2017

Women on the move

From the jungle known as the comments section:

First there was the creation of a new way of life north of the Caucasus, a mobile form of pastoralism herding animals which had been domesticated in the near east and the horse which was domesticated somewhere on the Eurasian steppe. Once this new way of life had been developed, it had a tremendous expansionary potential due to the vast amount of land which was suitable for it. This is why polygamy was a good strategy for these pastoralists because, as they competed with one another to build the biggest herds and control the biggest territories, it allowed for a rapid expansion of their family groups. This is the context within which there was a need to bring in additional women from outside. The pastoralists in turn would have been able to offer the families of their Caucasus farmer wives a good bride price for them.

See also…

Women on the Move. The DNA Evidence for Female Mobility and Exogamy in Prehistory

Davidski said…
@Capra
But there is R1a-M17 in Lokomotiv predating Khvalynsk. Was it still east of the Urals?
I know you pride yourself on being objective, but clearly, like a lot of people who post here, you need to work on being realistic. Why would European R1a-M417 come from east of the Urals at such a late stage? Why wouldn’t it come from the western steppe, along with the Corded Ware expansion, from an archaeological group like Dnieper Donets, Sredny Stog or Pontic Yamnaya, that has already been suspected of being ancestral to Corded Ware? Keep in mind that Ukraine N is from a Dnieper Donets burial, and fits the bill as ancestral to the most steppe-shifted Corded Ware individuals. So that comment of yours, was that a brain fart or were you just trolling, or what?
February 5, 2017 at 7:54 PM

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