454 SKRBH 40 „Super ruski troll” Anatole Klyosov i jego „wiarygodne” twierdzenia, jako dowody na „południową drogę R1a”, pochodzenie tzw. Afanasievo i tzw. Tocharians… :-)


http://www.academia.edu/2440050/The_Origin_of_Kurds

Jak pisałem we wcześniejszych wpisach, przyjrzę się teraz „wiarygodności” osoby Anatole Klyosov’a, jak i niektórych twierdzeń, których jest on autorem (wraz z innymi, jak Rozhanskii, Tomezzoli, itp.). 

Pewno nie wszyscy o tym wiedzą lub pamiętają (może Adam Smoliński i Dragomira coś sobie przypominają), ale od dłuższego już czasu ostrzegałem osoby powołujące się na wyniki prac i odkryć tego rosyjskiego naukowca i patrioty…

Pragnę przybliżyć teraz o co mi chodziło i nadal chodzi, kiedy mówię, że ten „super ruski troll” nie jest on specjalnie wiarygodnym źródłem danych… i powoływanie się na niego, jak to robią wyznawcy „południowej drogi R1a”,.. to siara… 🙂

Najpierw trochę ogólnie dostępnych danych na jego temat, a potem kilka przykładów jego tez, zacytowanych z jego trzech prac i jednego filmu…

Czy to nie jest rechot Aku, że „łowcy ruskich trolli” powołują się na prace i twierdzenia „super ruskiego trolla”, którego ja wg nich także „ruski troll” i agent złych mocy demaskuję?!! 🙂

Oto dowody, że ten ałtorytet genetyczny (i językoznawczy), w którego twierdzenia wierzą i „rudaweb.pl” i „Białczyński”. „Orlicki” pomijam, bo on nigdy nie powołał się nawet na żadne nazwiska, czy badania naukowe, pomijając ten jego ruski film…

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6 thoughts on “454 SKRBH 40 „Super ruski troll” Anatole Klyosov i jego „wiarygodne” twierdzenia, jako dowody na „południową drogę R1a”, pochodzenie tzw. Afanasievo i tzw. Tocharians… :-)

  1. Białczyński powołał się kiedyś także na osobę (niby genetyka?) o nazwisku Lawrence Mayka, który rzekomo potwierdza „południową drogę R1a”. Niestety nie udało mi się znaleźć żadnej jego pracy, nie mówiąc już nawet o dowodach, które przedstawił, jako poparcie tej tezy.

    Jedyne co udało mi się ustalić to to, że jest prowadzącym ten projekt:

    http://www.gwozdz.org/polishclades.html

    http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Lawrence-Mayka/1590333965

    Wygląda mi na to, że Lawrence Mayka… jest z wykształcenia elektrykiem…!!! LOL 🙂 🙂 🙂

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-mayka-25b5155

    http://www.classmates.com/people/Lawrence-Mayka/50939251

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lawrence_Mayka

    Oto co wyszukuje mój google na jego temat:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Lawrence+Mayka&espv=2&ei=CgzqWKDcEqzegAb2uKTAAg&start=10&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=662

    Underhillowi poświęcę oddzielny wpis. Nie znam już nikogo więcej, kto może potwierdzić w jakiś rozsądny sposób, na bazie prac i danych „południową drogę R1a”…

    Lubię to

    • http://www.linguisticsociety.org/sites/default/files/news/ChangEtAlPreprint.pdf

      ANCESTRY-CONSTRAINED PHYLOGENETIC ANALYSIS SUPPORTS THE INDO-EUROPEAN STEPPE HYPOTHESIS
      Will Chang, Chundra Cathcart

      O… i nawet Chang wątpi w Anatolię… 🙂

      No i co wy na to „łowcy ruskich trolli”, hm?!! Co tak cicho u was, gdzie bohatersko pochowali się wasi wierni zwolennicy? Jakoś nikt nie ma odwagi popyszczyć trochę na mnie, jak dawniej?!!

      HGW, czy jak ci tam… Bohaterze mocny w gębie… No co zgubiłeś swoje zabrązowione kalesony i spadłeś w przepaść, bo nie umiałeś zachować ani się, ani równowagi swoich poglądów, hm?!!

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  2. G2a nie ma nad Wisłą, zresztą to raczej nie byli „pierwsi rolnicy” tylko „pierwsi europejscy rolnicy”, bo tylko J2, o ile dobrze rozumiem było obecne w żyznym półksiężycu, a I2a to już „tubylczy wtórnie zrolniczony” ludek…

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/25/6886.full

    Early farmers from across Europe directly descended from Neolithic Aegeans
    Zuzana Hofmanováa,1, Susanne Kreutzera,1, Garrett Hellenthalb, Christian Sella, Yoan Diekmannb, David Díez-del-Molinob, Lucy van Dorpb, Saioa Lópezb, Athanasios Kousathanasc,d, Vivian Linkc,d, Karola Kirsanowa, Lara M. Cassidye, Rui Martinianoe, Melanie Strobela, Amelie Scheua,e, Kostas Kotsakisf, Paul Halsteadg, Sevi Triantaphyllouf, Nina Kyparissi-Apostolikah, Dushka Urem-Kotsoui, Christina Ziotaj, Fotini Adaktylouk, Shyamalika Gopalanl, Dean M. Bobol, Laura Winkelbacha, Jens Blöchera, Martina Unterländera, Christoph Leuenbergerm, Çiler Çilingiroğlun, Barbara Horejso, Fokke Gerritsenp, Stephen J. Shennanq, Daniel G. Bradleye, Mathias Curratr, Krishna R. Veeramahl, Daniel Wegmannc,d, Mark G. Thomasb, Christina Papageorgopoulous,2, and Joachim Burgera,2

    Abstract
    Farming and sedentism first appeared in southwestern Asia during the early Holocene and later spread to neighboring regions, including Europe, along multiple dispersal routes. Conspicuous uncertainties remain about the relative roles of migration, cultural diffusion, and admixture with local foragers in the early Neolithization of Europe. Here we present paleogenomic data for five Neolithic individuals from northern Greece and northwestern Turkey spanning the time and region of the earliest spread of farming into Europe. We use a novel approach to recalibrate raw reads and call genotypes from ancient DNA and observe striking genetic similarity both among Aegean early farmers and with those from across Europe. Our study demonstrates a direct genetic link between Mediterranean and Central European early farmers and those of Greece and Anatolia, extending the European Neolithic migratory chain all the way back to southwestern Asia.

    Significance
    One of the most enduring and widely debated questions in prehistoric archaeology concerns the origins of Europe’s earliest farmers: Were they the descendants of local hunter-gatherers, or did they migrate from southwestern Asia, where farming began? We recover genome-wide DNA sequences from early farmers on both the European and Asian sides of the Aegean to reveal an unbroken chain of ancestry leading from central and southwestern Europe back to Greece and northwestern Anatolia. Our study provides the coup de grâce to the notion that farming spread into and across Europe via the dissemination of ideas but without, or with only a limited, migration of people.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/25/6886.figures-only

    It is well established that farming was introduced to Europe from Anatolia, but the extent to which its spread was mediated by demic expansion of Anatolian farmers, or by the transmission of farming technologies and lifeways to indigenous hunter-gatherers without a major concomitant migration of people, has been the subject of considerable debate. Paleogenetic studies (14) of late hunter-gatherers (HG) and early farmers indicate a dominant role for migration in the transition to farming in central and northern Europe, with evidence of only limited hunter-gatherer admixture into early Neolithic populations, but increasing toward the late Neolithic. However, the exact origin of central and western Europe’s early farmers in the Balkans, Greece, or Anatolia remains an open question.

    Recent radiocarbon dating indicates that by 6,600–6,500 calibrated (cal) BCE sedentary farming communities were established in northwestern Anatolia at sites such as Barcın, Menteşe, and Aktopraklık C and in coastal western Anatolia at sites such as Çukuriçi and Ulucak, but did not expand north or west of the Aegean for another several hundred years (5). All these sites show material culture affinities with the central and southwestern Anatolian Neolithic (6).

    Early Greek Neolithic sites, such as the Franchthi Cave in the Peloponnese, Knossos in Crete, and Mauropigi, Paliambela, and Revenia in northern Greece date to a similar period (79). The distribution of obsidian from the Cycladic islands, as well as similarities in material culture, suggest extensive interactions since the Mesolithic and a coeval Neolithic on both sides of the Aegean (8). Although it has been argued that in situ Aegean Mesolithic hunter-gatherers played a major role in the “Neolithization” of Greece (7), the presence of domesticated forms of plants and animals indicates nonlocal Neolithic dispersals into the area.

    We present five ancient genomes from both, the European and Asian sides of the northern Aegean (Fig. 1); despite their origin from nontemperate regions, three of them were sequenced to relatively high coverage (∼2–7×), enabling diploid calls using a novel SNP calling method that accurately accounts for postmortem damage (SI Appendix, SI5. Genotype Calling for Ancient DNA). Two of the higher-coverage genomes are from Barcın, south of the Marmara Sea in Turkey, one of the earliest Neolithic sites in northwestern Anatolia (individuals Bar8 and Bar31). On the European side of the Aegean, one genome is from the early Neolithic site of Revenia (Rev5), and the remaining two are from the late and final Neolithic sites of Paliambela (Pal7) and Kleitos (Klei10), dating to ∼2,000 y later (Table 1). Estimates of mitochondrial contamination were low (0.006–1.772% for shotgun data) (Table 1; SI Appendix, SI4. Analysis of Uniparental Markers and X Chromosome Contamination Estimates.). We found unprecedented deamination rates of up to 56% in petrous bone samples, indicating a prehistoric origin for our sequence data from nontemperate environments (SI Appendix, Table S5).

    (…)

    Uniparental Genetic Systems

    The mtDNA haplogroups of all five Neolithic individuals are typical of those found in central European Neolithic farmers and modern Europeans, but not in European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (1). Likewise, the Y-chromosomes of the two male individuals belong to haplogroup G2a2, which has been observed in European Neolithic farmers (3, 10); in Ötzi, the Tyrolean Iceman (11); and in modern western and southwestern Eurasian populations, but not in any pre-Neolithic European hunter-gatherers (12). The mitochondrial haplogroups of two additional less well-preserved Greek Mesolithic individuals (Theo1, Theo5; SI Appendix, Table S6) belong to lineages observed in Neolithic farmers from across Europe; consistent with Aegean Neolithic populations, unlike central European Neolithic populations, being the direct descendants of the preceding Mesolithic peoples who inhabited broadly the same region. However, we caution against over-interpretation of the Aegean Mesolithic mtDNA data; additional genome-level data will be required to identify the Mesolithic source population(s) of the early Aegean farmers. (…)

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101109172344.htm
    DNA reveals origins of first European farmers
    Haak W, Balanovsky O, Sanchez JJ, Koshel S, Zaporozhchenko V, et al. Ancient DNA from European Early Neolithic Farmers Reveals Their Near Eastern Affinities. PLoS Biology, 2010; DOI: 10.1371/journal.pbio.1000536
    Date: November 10, 2010
    Source: University of Adelaide
    Summary: A team of international researchers has resolved the longstanding issue of the origins of the people who introduced farming to Europe some 8,000 years ago. A detailed genetic study of one of the first farming communities in Europe, from central Germany, reveals marked similarities with populations living in the Ancient Near East (modern-day Turkey, Iraq and other countries) rather than those from Europe.

    Genetic matrilineal distances between 55 modern Western Eurasian populations and Neolithic Linear Pottery Culture (LBK) samples. Mapped genetic distances are illustrated between 55 modern Western Eurasian populations and the total of 42 Neolithic LBK samples (A) or the single graveyard of Derenburg (B). Black dots denote the location of modern-day populations used in the analysis. The coloring indicates the degree of similarity of the modern local population(s) with the Neolithic sample set: short distances (greatest similarity) are marked by dark green and long distances (greatest dissimilarity) by orange, with fainter colors in between the extremes.

    http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsb/282/1805/20150339.full.pdf

    Tracing the genetic origin of Europe’s first farmers reveals insights into their social organization
    Anna Szecsenyi-Nagy, Guido Brandt, Wolfgang Haak
    Proc. R. Soc. B 282: 20150339.
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2015.0339
    Received: 12 February 2015
    Accepted: 25 February 2015

    (…)
    In this study, we present 84 mtDNA and 9 Y chromosomal DNA data from Mesolithic (6200–6000 BC) and Neolithic specimens of the STA and LBKT from western Hungary and Croatia. Spanning a time transect of the Hungarian Neolithic in Transdanubia over approximately 900years (ca 5800– 4900 BC) allowed us to gain detailed insight into the spread of farming from the Near East.
    (…)
    The haplotype of the Mesolithic skeleton from the Croatian Island Korcˇula could be assigned to mtDNA haplogroup U5b2a5 (electronic supplementary material, dataset S3). Sub-haplogroup U5b has been shown to be common in hunter–gatherer communities across Europe [28–30,32,33, 47,48]. Contrary to the low mtDNA diversity observed in Central/North European hunter–gatherers [28–30], we identify a higher variability in early farming communities of the Carpathian Basin including haplogroups N1a, T1, T2, J, K, H, HV, V,W, X, U2, U3, U4 and U5a (electronic supplementary material, table S1). Previous studies described haplogroups N1a, T2, J, K, HV, V, W and X as being characteristic for the Central European LBK and suggested these as the mitochondrial ‘Neolithic package’ that had reached Central Europe in the sixth millennium BC [38,39]. Interestingly, most of these eight haplogroups
    show comparable frequencies between the STA, LBKT and LBK, and represent the majority of mtDNAvariation in each culture (STA ¼ 86.36%, LBKT ¼ 61.54%, LBK ¼ 79.63%) with similar haplotype diversity (STA ¼ 0.97674, LBKT ¼ 0.95277, LBK ¼ 0.95483). By contrast, hunter–gatherer haplogroups are rare in the STA and both LBK groups (electronic supplementary material, table S1). Haplogroup H was not included in the Neolithic package, because it has also been found in pre-agricultural context in Iberia [48]. However, the low resolution of HVS-I does not allow to distinguish between H lineages of Neolithic or preNeolithic origins in Transdanubia and would require whole mitochondrial genome analyses.
    (…)
    (b) Y chromosomal DNA
    We analysed 33 Y-haplogroup defining SNPs located on the non-recombining part of the Y chromosome (NRY), using multiplex [38] and singleplex PCR. We successfully generated unambiguous NRY SNP profiles for nine male individuals (STA ¼ 7, LBKT ¼ 2; electronic supplementary material, datasets S3 and S5). Three STA individuals belong to the NRY haplogroup F* (M89) and two specimens can be assigned to the haplogroup G2a2b (S126), and one each to G2a (P15) and I2a1 (P37.2). The two investigated LBKT samples carry haplogroups G2a2b (S126) and I1 (M253). Furthermore, incomplete SNP profiles of eight specimens potentially belong to the same haplogroups—STA: three G2a2b (S126), two G2a (P15) and one I (M170); LBKT: one G2a2b (S126) and one
    F* (M89).
    (…)

    …..

    No i znów brak jest R1a… Ciekawe co na to „łowcy ruskich trolli” i inni wyznawcy południowej drogi R1a..?!! 🙂

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